PvP
- Ret with a Holy dip beats Ret with a Prot dip, on the strength of silence immunity, fear reduction and real self-heals. Consensus
- Deep Ret at 16/0/35 is the channel’s pick “right now”; a revised Holy ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. at 25/26/0 with PrecisionPrecisionIncreases your chance to hit with all spells and attacks by 1%.Requires 5 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. is the healer-with-a-two-hander option. One person
- Holy Strike lands as Holy damage in the beta, so it ignores armor; that and Seal of Righteousness critting for double are the beta’s gifts to PvP. Confirmed
- VindicationVindicationGives your damaging melee attacks a chance to reduce the target's Attack Power by 42, and increase your Attack Power by 1% for 30 sec.Requires 10 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. at 60 reads as about a 200 attack power debuff, which the channel calls strong against melee. One person
- The PvP realm is faction locked: in the beta you cannot make an Alliance character after a Horde one on it. Confirmed
- Rank progression is honor every three months with vanity rewards at the top, one PvP mega realm, and no arena. Blizzard said
- Twist of LightTwist of LightWhen you replace your Seal of Command, Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Fury, or Seal of Justice with a different Seal, gain an Echo. Your next melee attack applies the replaced Seal's effects, consuming the Echo.Requires 30 points in Retribution · Requires Level 40All ranks read from demo footage. is the only way to twist, seals are dispellable, and “Premier” vendor gear looked weak. Nothing past level 20 has been tested. Read from demo
Where PvP stands, in full
Seeded from the first six days of #forever-pvp (379 messages, September 12 to 18). Everything here is read from BlizzCon demo footage, stream screenshots, secondhand relays of the panels and the first night of the level 20 beta. The channel is small and most PvP-relevant beta findings arrived through the Ret channel.
- One PvP mega realm, no war mode, faction locked. Hardcore characters that die can continue on the PvP realm. The faction lock showed up on beta night: a Horde character on the PvP playstyle blocks Alliance characters there, and switching to the PvE playstyle meant a fresh 25-minute queue. (Realm design relayed from Blizzard; lock seen firsthand.)
- Ranks are an honor bar. The PvP pane seen on a stream shows rank progression as a plain experience bar (“0/250” on hover). Ranks go to 14 purely on honor. The channel’s read of the September 17 talk: progression through honor every three months, with vanity rewards at the top ranks, and no new rating system.
- Seasons are on the roadmap. A “Season 1 PvP” date was mentioned at BlizzCon; the channel did not capture it.
- No arena expected. An arena queue NPC exists in the demo but only queues Warsong Gulch. Legacy-screen tooltips mention battlegrounds and not arena. The channel’s working assumption is battlegrounds plus seasons, no arena or rated battlegrounds.
- Faction balance is unresolved. Blizzard mentioned faction imbalance and “some kind of faction balance”, and the channel cites the Season of Discovery faction lock as precedent. Nothing concrete about a lock on the PvP realm.
Which build should I use?
- Melee with self-healing: Deep Ret, 16/0/35.
- Shock and heal: Arena Vigil, 31/18/2 with a Prot dip, or 31/7/13 with a Ret dip.
- Attrition: Holy ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., 25/26/0, the most annoying build to fight. A revised version swaps the spell hit for PrecisionPrecisionIncreases your chance to hit with all spells and attacks by 1%.Requires 5 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., Templar’s Bulwark and Improved Hammer of JusticeImproved Hammer of JusticeDecreases the cooldown of your Hammer of Justice spell by 15 sec.Requires 15 points in ProtectionAll ranks read from demo footage..
- Burst with a pocket healer: Stun Burst Ret, 0/20/31.
- Shock burst: the Ret channel’s 21/0/30 Shock builds. One estimate here: with 300 spell power, Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. crits for about 900, and the burst is auto, Command proc, Judgement and Shock.
All PvP builds with links, verdicts and trees
All are drafts from the channel, none tested. Splits are Holy/Prot/Ret as read from the link encoding. Links first posted on other calculators were converted to talentsforever.com on September 15.
| Build | Split | Link | Verdict |
|---|---|---|---|
| Deep Ret One person | 16/0/35 | open | Improved Holy StrikeImproved Holy StrikeReduces the cooldown of your Holy Strike ability by 1 sec.Max rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., Spiritual FocusSpiritual FocusGives your Flash of Light, Holy Light, and Light's Vigil spells a 70% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.Requires 5 points in HolyThis rank read from footage; other ranks estimated., Improved SealsImproved SealsIncreases the damage done by your Seals and Judgements by 5%.Requires 5 points in HolyMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., Unyielding FaithUnyielding FaithReduces the duration of Fear and Disorient effects on you by 15%.Requires 5 points in HolyMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., Voice of TruthVoice of TruthInstant | 3 min cooldownGrants you immunity to Silence and Interrupt effects. Lasts 6 sec.Requires 10 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage., Purifying PowerPurifying PowerReduces the mana cost of your Cleanse and Purify spells by 20% and reduces the cooldown of your Exorcism and Holy Wrath spells by 33%.Requires 10 points in HolyThis rank read from footage; other ranks estimated., Divine FavorDivine Favor37 Mana | Instant | 2 min cooldownWhen activated, gives your next Flash of Light, Holy Light, or Holy Shock spell a 100% critical effect chance.Requires 15 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage., BenedictionBenedictionReduces the Mana cost of all instant cast spells and abilities by 10%.This rank read from footage; other ranks estimated.. Ret with real self-healing. The author’s pick “right now”. |
| Three-Tree Ret One person | 13/7/31 | open | Divine StrengthDivine StrengthIncreases your Strength by 10%.All ranks read from demo footage. plus the Holy utility (Spiritual FocusSpiritual FocusGives your Flash of Light, Holy Light, and Light's Vigil spells a 70% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.Requires 5 points in HolyThis rank read from footage; other ranks estimated., Improved SealsImproved SealsIncreases the damage done by your Seals and Judgements by 5%.Requires 5 points in HolyMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., Unyielding FaithUnyielding FaithReduces the duration of Fear and Disorient effects on you by 15%.Requires 5 points in HolyMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.). A revised version drops Champion of the LightChampion of the LightIncreases your spell damage and healing by up to 33% of your Intellect.Requires 25 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. for CrusadeCrusadeIncreases all damage dealt by 1%. Increased by an additional 1% against Demon and Undead targets.Requires 15 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. and one rank of VengeanceVengeanceIncreases your Physical and Holy damage dealt by 1% for 30 sec after landing a critical strike. Stacks up to 5 times.Requires 20 points in Retribution · Requires 3 points in Sanctified JudgementMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.. |
| Stun Burst Ret One person | 0/20/31 | open | ToughnessToughnessIncreases your armor value from items by 10%.All ranks read from demo footage., PrecisionPrecisionIncreases your chance to hit with all spells and attacks by 1%.Requires 5 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., Guardian’s Favor, Improved Seal of FuryImproved Seal of FuryWhen Seal of Fury's shield is fully absorbed, restore 38 Mana, increased by 15% per level the attacker is above you, up to 45%.Requires 10 points in ProtectionAll ranks read from demo footage.. Built for a “double Seal of CommandSeal of Command65 Mana | InstantGives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to 70% of normal weapon damage. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 30 sec. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing 68 to 73 Holy damage, 137 to 146 if the target is stunned or incapacitated.Requires 10 points in RetributionAll ranks read from demo footage. stun judge”. Judged good only with a pocket healer. |
| Shock Ret | 26/0/25 | open | Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. as the main button with Ret multipliers behind it. |
| Holy ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. | 25/26/0 | open | Divine IntellectDivine IntellectIncreases your total Intellect by 10%.All ranks read from demo footage., Healing LightHealing LightIncreases the amount healed by your Holy Light, Flash of Light, and Holy Shock spells by 12%.Requires 5 points in HolyThis rank read from footage; other ranks estimated., Spiritual FocusSpiritual FocusGives your Flash of Light, Holy Light, and Light's Vigil spells a 70% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.Requires 5 points in HolyThis rank read from footage; other ranks estimated., Unyielding FaithUnyielding FaithReduces the duration of Fear and Disorient effects on you by 15%.Requires 5 points in HolyMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. plus ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.. Called the most annoying build to fight. |
| Holy ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., PrecisionPrecisionIncreases your chance to hit with all spells and attacks by 1%.Requires 5 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. One person | 25/26/0 | open | Posted September 17 as “Holy Reck looking pretty strong”: play like a healer, but with Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage., a double judge from Swift JudgementSwift JudgementInstant | 1 min cooldownFinishes the remaining cooldown on your Judgement ability and reduces the Mana cost of your next Judgement by 100%.Requires 15 points in Protection · Requires 1 point in Improved Seal of FuryAll ranks read from demo footage., ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. stacks and Templar’s Bulwark for survival. Same Holy core as the row above; Prot takes ToughnessToughnessIncreases your armor value from items by 10%.All ranks read from demo footage. 5, PrecisionPrecisionIncreases your chance to hit with all spells and attacks by 1%.Requires 5 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. 3, Guardian’s Favor, Sacred DutySacred DutyIncreases your total Stamina by 2% and reduces the cooldown of your Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Templar's Bulwark spells by 30 sec.Requires 10 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., Improved Hammer of JusticeImproved Hammer of JusticeDecreases the cooldown of your Hammer of Justice spell by 15 sec.Requires 15 points in ProtectionAll ranks read from demo footage. 3 and Templar’s Bulwark instead of RedoubtRedoubtDamaging melee attacks against you have a 10% chance to increase your chance to block by 6%. Lasts 10 sec or 5 blocks.Max rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., AnticipationAnticipationIncreases your Defense Skill by 4.Requires 5 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. and One-Handed Weapon SpecializationOne-Handed Weapon SpecializationIncreases the damage you deal with one-handed melee weapons by 3%.Requires 15 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., since “the spell hit talent isn’t necessary in PvP when you can grab PrecisionPrecisionIncreases your chance to hit with all spells and attacks by 1%.Requires 5 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.”. Replies: RedoubtRedoubtDamaging melee attacks against you have a 10% chance to increase your chance to block by 6%. Lasts 10 sec or 5 blocks.Max rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. is pointless with a two-hander, since ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. no longer needs a block; IlluminationIlluminationAfter getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light, Holy Light, Light's Vigil, or Holy Shock heal spell you have a 40% chance to gain Mana equal to 50% of the base cost of the spell.Requires 15 points in Holy · Requires 3 points in ReverenceMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 2 text. is worth less in PvP because so many casts are not heals, so Improved SealsImproved SealsIncreases the damage done by your Seals and Judgements by 5%.Requires 5 points in HolyMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. may beat it. |
| Arena Vigil, PvP-channel variant | 31/18/2 | open | Deep Holy shock build with a Prot dip. Near-identical to the Holy channel’s Arena Vigil. Deliberately skips the block-mana talent. |
| Arena Vigil, Ret dip One person | 31/7/13 | open | Same Holy core, Ret dip instead of Prot. One theorycrafter’s “makes the most sense” pair with the row above. |
| Holy/Prot Shockadin draft One person | 31/20/0 | open | Shock into Judgement on the same global. Criticized for taking the one-hander damage talent over 6% damage reduction. The author called it a rough draft. |
| ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. Bulwark | 4/26/21 | open | ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. plus Templar’s Bulwark with a two-hander. Objection: ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. and twisting can’t coexist, so the Ret half is wasted. Originally posted on forever.oxm.gg; the converted link reads exactly 4/26/21 (Improved Holy StrikeImproved Holy StrikeReduces the cooldown of your Holy Strike ability by 1 sec.Max rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. 2, Divine StrengthDivine StrengthIncreases your Strength by 10%.All ranks read from demo footage. 2). |
The Holy channel’s own Arena Vigil (31/18/2) is the healer-side PvP build: Vigil burst, 30 seconds off the bubble cooldown, 45-second Hammer of Justice, skips IlluminationIlluminationAfter getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light, Holy Light, Light's Vigil, or Holy Shock heal spell you have a 40% chance to gain Mana equal to 50% of the base cost of the spell.Requires 15 points in Holy · Requires 3 points in ReverenceMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 2 text..
Trees. Comparisons show the first build’s points and what they become in the second.
Three-Tree Ret to its revised version, which drops Champion of the LightChampion of the LightIncreases your spell damage and healing by up to 33% of your Intellect.Requires 25 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. for CrusadeCrusadeIncreases all damage dealt by 1%. Increased by an additional 1% against Demon and Undead targets.Requires 15 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. and a rank of VengeanceVengeanceIncreases your Physical and Holy damage dealt by 1% for 30 sec after landing a critical strike. Stacks up to 5 times.Requires 20 points in Retribution · Requires 3 points in Sanctified JudgementMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text..
Stun Burst Ret
Shock Ret
Holy ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. to its PrecisionPrecisionIncreases your chance to hit with all spells and attacks by 1%.Requires 5 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. version
Arena Vigil, PvP-channel variant
Arena Vigil, Prot dip to Ret dip, the same Holy core with the other 20 points moved.
Holy/Prot Shockadin draft
ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. Bulwark
How it plays
- Twist of LightTwist of LightWhen you replace your Seal of Command, Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Fury, or Seal of Justice with a different Seal, gain an Echo. Your next melee attack applies the replaced Seal's effects, consuming the Echo.Requires 30 points in Retribution · Requires Level 40All ranks read from demo footage.: slow weapon, alternate rank 1 Seal of CommandSeal of Command65 Mana | InstantGives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to 70% of normal weapon damage. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 30 sec. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing 68 to 73 Holy damage, 137 to 146 if the target is stunned or incapacitated.Requires 10 points in RetributionAll ranks read from demo footage. and Seal of Righteousness every swing, judge while in Righteousness.
- Burst: big two-hander auto with Command, Judgement on a stunned target, and Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. in the same global.
- Shockadin: Shock and Judge on the same global, then again next cooldown.
- ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.: build charges from being crit normally; sit-and-stand farming is gone.
The playstyle in detail
- Twist of LightTwist of LightWhen you replace your Seal of Command, Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Fury, or Seal of Justice with a different Seal, gain an Echo. Your next melee attack applies the replaced Seal's effects, consuming the Echo.Requires 30 points in Retribution · Requires Level 40All ranks read from demo footage. (Ret talent): equip a slow weapon, alternate rank 1 Seal of CommandSeal of Command65 Mana | InstantGives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to 70% of normal weapon damage. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 30 sec. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing 68 to 73 Holy damage, 137 to 146 if the target is stunned or incapacitated.Requires 10 points in RetributionAll ranks read from demo footage. and Seal of Righteousness every swing, weave Holy Strike, Judge while in Righteousness. Works in either direction. Max-rank Command plus Righteousness goes out of mana in about ten seconds, so rank 1 Command is assumed, which also makes judging Command on a stunned target unlikely.
- Classic-style twisting without the talent did not seem possible in the test (September 15, supersedes earlier hope). ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. plus twisting also does not work. One person’s explanation, from reading rather than testing: the client now uses 0.1-second spell batching instead of 0.4, so batching-based twists are impossible by design. The same change would kill sit-and-stand ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. charge farming, which another person says has been gone from Classic for a while anyway. Expect to build ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. charges from being crit normally, so fast weapons and crit matter more.
- Burst combo: big two-hander auto with Command, Judgement off cooldown (preferably on a stunned target) and Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. in the same global. The argument is that about 1,400 up front beats building Righteousness damage to the same total over ten seconds.
- Light’s Vigil combo (one person): Judge Crusader, Light’s Vigil, Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage., Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage., melee with Command.
- Shockadin: Shock and Judge on the same global, then again next cooldown. ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. plus Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. is viewed as “ridiculous” if both can be reached.
- Eye for an EyeEye for an EyeAll critical strikes against you cause 5% of the damage taken to the attacker as well. The damage caused by Eye for an Eye will not exceed 50% of the Paladin's total health.Requires 15 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. (one theorycrafter’s framing): kiting no longer removes paladin offense. Opponents have to control the healing, time burst around the reflect, force the bubble, and lean on DoTs, mana denial and healing reduction. Not expected to reach Wrath prot-warrior damage-shield levels.
Key talents and how the channel values them
- Holy utility is the reason Ret/Holy beats Ret/Prot. Consensus A Holy talent grants 6 seconds of silence immunity, another reduces fear and disorient duration, and the heals are big. The later caveat (September 15): 6 seconds is very short and easy to get stunned or feared through.
- Twist of LightTwist of LightWhen you replace your Seal of Command, Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Fury, or Seal of Justice with a different Seal, gain an Echo. Your next melee attack applies the replaced Seal's effects, consuming the Echo.Requires 30 points in Retribution · Requires Level 40All ranks read from demo footage.: disliked. No timing skill, weaker twists than Classic, “seal busywork”. One person argues twisting was gated on purpose so Shock and Prot stay balanceable and swing timers stay out of it.
- Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage.: roughly the same damage as twisting for far less complexity, plus range and healing. This is the community consensus, not a measured result.
- Holy Strike (baseline): an instant attack, 25% weapon damage at rank 1 and 40% at the level 10 trainer, plus flat holy, with a spell power coefficient tested near 42.5%. Its tooltip lists a dual “Holystrike” school, and the combat log reportedly shows it landing as Holy, which bypasses armor; the Ret channel called that “big for PvP”. Whether it is normalized is still open. Confirmed
- VindicationVindicationGives your damaging melee attacks a chance to reduce the target's Attack Power by 42, and increase your Attack Power by 1% for 30 sec.Requires 10 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.: the level 60 tooltip reads about a 200 attack power debuff, “insane value versus melee, especially early”. The caveat from someone who played Season of Discovery: it scaled per level there, so it is far smaller at low levels, and “it’s just single-target Demoralizing Shout”. One person
- Light’s Vigil with a one-hander: one person is going one-hander Holy with Light’s Vigil instead of ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. because it works against casters and melee alike. The reply: “that’s a fine spec”.
- IlluminationIlluminationAfter getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light, Holy Light, Light's Vigil, or Holy Shock heal spell you have a 40% chance to gain Mana equal to 50% of the base cost of the spell.Requires 15 points in Holy · Requires 3 points in ReverenceMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 2 text. in PvP: worth less than in PvE because so many of your casts are not heals; Improved SealsImproved SealsIncreases the damage done by your Seals and Judgements by 5%.Requires 5 points in HolyMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. is the suggested swap.
- Eye for an EyeEye for an EyeAll critical strikes against you cause 5% of the damage taken to the attacker as well. The damage caused by Eye for an Eye will not exceed 50% of the Paladin's total health.Requires 15 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.: near-mandatory for PvP per one theorycrafter, “if it still has 100% spell power scaling”. One person Uncertain.
- ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.: confirmed not to work with twisting. You do not need to block to build it, so a two-hander works. Whether it still stacks 4 charges is open.
- Prot’s early tree: a 6% damage reduction talent competes with a one-hander damage talent (from a screenshot). Reaching the 3-minute Blessing of Protection costs 7 points and the same route adds about 6 seconds of Freedom and 10% armor.
- Block mana talent (Prot): claimed by one person as 7% max mana every 3 seconds on block. One person Not verified. Value is disputed: blocking rarely matters in PvP (only unstunned, not casting, hit from the front) versus strong against rogues and in battlegrounds.
- Stun removal: cooldown unknown. One guess of 2 minutes. Called “pretty sick” by one person; another guesses it may share a cooldown with Blessing of Protection but not with other blessings. Unverified.
- Seals are still dispellable. Asked again on September 15 and answered “yes” with a demo screenshot, plus “ask for this in feedback”. Read from demo Several remember Season of Discovery being miserable against shaman lobbies for exactly this reason. Not tested in beta yet.
- Season of Discovery Shockadin was “very fun, competitive with the best” in duels, per one person who played it in tournaments, but “not even remotely the same as what we have in Forever”. One person
Numbers from the demo
All from one theorycrafter’s estimates on September 14 to 15 unless noted, assuming about 800 spell power with Sanctity and VengeanceVengeanceIncreases your Physical and Holy damage dealt by 1% for 30 sec after landing a critical strike. Stacks up to 5 times.Requires 20 points in Retribution · Requires 3 points in Sanctified JudgementMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.-type buffs up. One person Treat as back-of-envelope.
| Ability | Estimate | Caveat |
|---|---|---|
| Seal of Righteousness | 50 to 55 base per hit at max rank, +15% Improved SealsImproved SealsIncreases the damage done by your Seals and Judgements by 5%.Requires 5 points in HolyMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text., about 145 to 156 per hit | Assumes ~800 spell damage |
| Seal of CommandSeal of Command65 Mana | InstantGives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to 70% of normal weapon damage. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 30 sec. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing 68 to 73 Holy damage, 137 to 146 if the target is stunned or incapacitated.Requires 10 points in RetributionAll ranks read from demo footage. | Slow two-hander: ~3 procs per 10 seconds at 450 to 675 each. 2.0-speed weapon: 750 to 1,125 per proc | Can now crit |
| Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. | 365 to 395 base, 42.9% coefficient. Non-crit 896 to 934, crit 1,344 to 1,401 | Coefficient read from tooltip |
| Holy Strike vs Crusader Strike | If not normalized, 7.9% better than Crusader Strike with a 3.8-speed weapon. At 1,000 weapon damage and 1,000 spell power, Holy Strike out-damages it | One person’s math, assumes non-normalized |
| Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. damage buff | 25% more when a VengeanceVengeanceIncreases your Physical and Holy damage dealt by 1% for 30 sec after landing a critical strike. Stacks up to 5 times.Requires 20 points in Retribution · Requires 3 points in Sanctified JudgementMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.-type buff is up | One person’s claim |
| Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. with 300 spell power | Crits “for like 900” | One person’s estimate for a 21/0/30 Ret |
| VindicationVindicationGives your damaging melee attacks a chance to reduce the target's Attack Power by 42, and increase your Attack Power by 1% for 30 sec.Requires 10 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. at 60 | About 200 attack power removed | Tooltip read; scaled per level in Season of Discovery |
Other reads: the demo calculators show 51 talent points at level 60. Judgement no longer consumes the seal. Seal of Righteousness crits in the beta for double damage as a melee attack. If the stat squish is real and raid two-handers deal about 35 DPS, spell power scaling matters more for paladins than for warriors or rogues.
Gearing, stats and races
- Both Strength and spell power. Relayed from Blizzard by one theorycrafter; lots of gear carries +spell damage. Melee being less gear-dependent than casters is one person’s opinion.
- Human is the racial pick on Alliance for several people. Undead is the only Horde option. Whether Human beats Dwarf for PvP was asked on September 15 and not answered.
- PvP vendor gear (demo screenshots, September 13): labeled “Premier”, bought with honor. A weapon showed lower DPS than its vanilla equivalent (vanilla cited at 64.6 DPS) and was called underwhelming. One theory is that it is deliberately low so seasonal upgrades have room. Items are “supposedly” upgradable.
- Healing set pieces are named “Lamellar”. No spell-power PvP set was seen. Glove bonuses and an epic set are unknown. One datamined proc, Return to Sender, reflects the next spell cast on you within 6 seconds when you drop below 25% health, once every 3 minutes; the Prot channel called it “insane for PvP”.
- Professions: Mining plus Engineering is assumed to be the PvP pair; one person lists mining as 5% health, enchanting as ring enchants and blacksmithing as belt enchants, none of it confirmed and some of it from the AI-generated sites the other channels distrust.
- Tank gear for a Prot/Holy shock build: asked, not answered.
What Blizzard has said
Every statement below was relayed secondhand in the channel. No direct link or timestamp was posted, so none is verified against a VOD.
- One PvP mega realm, no war mode, one faction per account on it (seen in the beta). Hardcore characters that die can continue on PvP realms.
- A Season 1 PvP date exists and PvP seasons are on the roadmap. Progression is honor every three months with vanity rewards at the top ranks.
- From the September 17 Q&A, via the other channels: real-money trading is a permanent ban, GDKP is not allowed, and Oceanic servers will be in Australia.
- Paladins will want to gear both Strength and spell power.
- Twisting is not mandatory (“losers can pick Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage.” is the channel’s paraphrase). “Twist of LightTwist of LightWhen you replace your Seal of Command, Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Fury, or Seal of Justice with a different Seal, gain an Echo. Your next melee attack applies the replaced Seal's effects, consuming the Echo.Requires 30 points in Retribution · Requires Level 40All ranks read from demo footage. is our answer to your love for twisting” was quoted from the stage.
- Faction imbalance was acknowledged with “some kind of faction balance” promised.
- Transfers: one person recalls PvE-to-PvP transfers being allowed, another recalls only Hardcore characters being able to move realm types. Unresolved.
Consensus versus disputed
Consensus
- Ret/Holy over classic Ret/Prot. Holy talents look strong.
- All three trees look good and Ret self-healing is back after a poor Season of Discovery showing.
- Twist of LightTwist of LightWhen you replace your Seal of Command, Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Fury, or Seal of Justice with a different Seal, gain an Echo. Your next melee attack applies the replaced Seal's effects, consuming the Echo.Requires 30 points in Retribution · Requires Level 40All ranks read from demo footage. is a chore. Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. does about the same job with less complexity.
- Rank 14 is an honor grind that resets each season. No arena or rated battlegrounds expected.
- Wish list: Hand of Freedom and Hand of Protection instead of Blessings, TBC Sacred DutySacred DutyIncreases your total Stamina by 2% and reduces the cooldown of your Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Templar's Bulwark spells by 30 sec.Requires 10 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. and Sanctified Seals, seals made non-magic so they can’t be purged.
Disputed or one person’s theory
- ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. at 4 stacks: one says it is already nerfed enough without twisting; several say 4 stacks would one-shot.
- Seal interaction: one says Command can proc Righteousness (one way); another says no interaction at all.
- Holy Strike normalized: one theorycrafter’s math assumes not; another leans normalized.
- Eye for an EyeEye for an EyeAll critical strikes against you cause 5% of the damage taken to the attacker as well. The damage caused by Eye for an Eye will not exceed 50% of the Paladin's total health.Requires 15 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. as near-mandatory: one theorycrafter.
- Block mana talent value: one-versus-one.
- A new max-level or level 40 seal to twist with Command, as in Season of Discovery: one person’s wish.
- Melee is less gear-dependent than casters: one person.
- 0.1-second spell batching is why twisting is gone: one person, from reading rather than testing. One person
- Seal dispel protection is the fix to ask for (several) versus seals being non-magic (the earlier wish list); both go in beta feedback.
Open questions
- Cooldown of the stun removal ability, and whether it shares a cooldown with Blessing of Protection.
- Whether spell batching is really 0.1 seconds.
- Whether ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. still stacks 4 charges, and how long its buff lasts.
- Whether arena exists at all. The faction lock is answered: it is on.
All open questions
- Cooldown of the stun removal ability, and whether it shares a cooldown with Blessing of Protection.
- Does Seal of Justice slow like TBC?
- Is Righteous Fury magic (purgeable)? Seals are, per the demo screenshot.
- Is spell batching really 0.1 seconds, and does that also remove sit-and-stand ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. farming?
- Can ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. still stack 4 charges? How long does the ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. buff last?
- Can Holy Strike proc Command or Righteousness? Does it scale with spell power? Is it normalized?
- Dishonorable kills: the channel’s answer is that they have been gone “for quite some time”, meaning since Classic; no Forever statement either way.
- Faction lock on the single PvP realm? PvE-to-PvP transfers?
- Arena or rated battlegrounds at all?
- PvP glove bonuses, epic set, spell-power set?
- Holy mana sustain in PvP.
- When Blizzard will detail the updated PvP systems.
What people are arguing about
- Whether Twist of LightTwist of LightWhen you replace your Seal of Command, Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Fury, or Seal of Justice with a different Seal, gain an Echo. Your next melee attack applies the replaced Seal's effects, consuming the Echo.Requires 30 points in Retribution · Requires Level 40All ranks read from demo footage. is worth taking at all, or whether Holy ShockHoly Shock160 Mana | Instant | Enemy: 20 yd range | Friendly: 40 yd range | 10 sec cooldownBlasts the target with Holy energy, causing 129 to 139 Holy damage to an enemy, or 110 to 118 healing to an ally.Requires 20 points in HolyAll ranks read from demo footage. makes the question moot. Consensus
- ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text.: dead talent or one-shot machine. One person
- Holy Strike normalization, which decides whether slow two-handers matter.
- Whether the “Premier” vendor gear is bad or just season-one bad.
- Whether VindicationVindicationGives your damaging melee attacks a chance to reduce the target's Attack Power by 42, and increase your Attack Power by 1% for 30 sec.Requires 10 points in RetributionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. is a serious anti-melee tool at 60 or “just Demoralizing Shout”.
- Whether Holy ReckoningReckoningGives you a 8% chance to gain an extra attack after Blocking a melee attack and a 20% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a non-periodic critical strike.Requires 20 points in ProtectionMax rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. wants RedoubtRedoubtDamaging melee attacks against you have a 10% chance to increase your chance to block by 6%. Lasts 10 sec or 5 blocks.Max rank not read from footage; showing rank 1 text. at all with a two-hander. Probably not.