WoW Forever Daily

WoW Forever Daily: 2026-09-17 (later still)

Thu, 17 Sep 2026 16:00:00 GMT

Nothing changed on the site this run. 2 Holy, 5 Prot and 39 Ret messages came in, and almost all of it was off-topic (economy chat, work-schedule banter, a Warlock theorycraft tangent) or a repeat of facts already on the pages, so no doc got an edit.

WoW Forever Daily: 2026-09-17 (later)

Thu, 17 Sep 2026 16:00:00 GMT

A quiet run: 5 Holy, 89 Prot and 79 Ret messages, most of it off-topic chatter (leveling banter, race jokes, UI complaints) rather than class findings. Two small updates went into the existing pages.

Prot: the Seal of Fury key-talent note and the matching open question now record that the absorb does not stack, confirmed independently by two testers.
Beta tracker: added a row for whether the Seal of Fury absorb stacks, marked confirmed.
Ret: added a note that a Seal of Martyrdom quest survives in the beta client but no longer grants the seal.
Learned: today's entry covers the Seal of Fury stacking answer and the Seal of Martyrdom quest leftover.

WoW Forever Daily: 2026-09-17

Thu, 17 Sep 2026 16:00:00 GMT

Ret: rewritten around the beta's first night. Holy Strike is now an instant with beta numbers (25 to 40% weapon damage, 42.5% coefficient, no seal procs), Seal of Righteousness crits for double with a 20 to 25% coefficient read, Seal of Fury at 10%, the datamined Consecration math, the beta notes on Holy Strike and Vengeance, the swing timer and its argument, the GCD-budget math, and the two 21/0/30 links added as rows 48 and 49. The reconstructed Panel Shockadin (34) is marked superseded.
Prot: the Judgement of Fury tooltip quoted in full and read as a true taunt; the taunt-diminishing-returns worry retired as TBC-only; Seal of Fury's 10% confirmed from a combat log; spell power settled as the tank stat from the crafted sets; Holy Shield's no-charges tooltip read; block value, crit cap and crushing blows from the character sheet; tier bonuses; the two-build expectation; pulling tools; Vigil Snap Prot (51) and a revised Intellect Threat Tank (52) added.
Holy: Light's Vigil at 1,340 mana on the beta tooltip, the Vigil credit question for Illumination, downranking confirmed, the Justice Armor bonuses, the Holy Light trinket and Holy Shock libram, the Intellect-stack estimate, the hit math and the Hit-Capped Shockadin (50), and the set bonus and feel-versus-numbers arguments.
PvP: the Precision Holy Reckoning (53), Holy Strike as pure Holy, Vindication's 200 attack power read, the faction lock seen in the beta, and the three-month honor cadence.
Overview: tldr and What's new rewritten for the beta; Q&A and beta notes added to what Blizzard has said; open questions 5, 7, 8, 9 and 12 updated and 14 and 15 added; quick facts for the beta client.
Beta tracker: Holy Strike, Seal of Fury, Seal of Righteousness crit, talent trees, swing timer, Touch of the Grave, spell misses and Blessing of Kings marked confirmed; Seal of Righteousness coefficient and Vengeance marked changed; rows added for Holy Shield charges and Exorcism.
Sources: the Q&A takeaways and the beta notes, Wowhead's set bonus and Legacy point datamines, the datamined spells and items, the Warcraft Tavern blacksmithing and cooking articles, the Prot first-look video, Esfand's September 16 stream, the Hyjal Summit tweet, the surname article, and a warning about foreverchanges.pro and daybreakforever.com. Library gained the Twist of Light rotation emulator and veldt1's item datamine.
Builds: six rows added (48 to 53), all validated at 51 points; the Wowhead and forever.oxm.gg links were converted.

Full entry

Sources: 436 Holy, 2,675 Prot, 7,143 Ret and 51 PvP messages from September 16 at 15:10 to September 18 at 03:10. The Ret file was read in three parts and the Prot file in two, with the Q&A window, the beta-opening window and the first hands-on reports read directly. Roughly half of Ret and a third of Prot was off-topic (blue elf lore, queue jokes, standing desks, anime profile pictures, a twisting flame war with no new information).

Beta status. Confirmed badges on the spec pages mark reads from the level 20 beta client on September 17, all at level 10 or lower in starter gear. Seal of Righteousness's 20 to 25% coefficient rests on one tester's Judgement of the Crusader test and is marked changed on the tracker rather than confirmed. Holy Shield's charges and Exorcism's targeting are datamine reads and stay untested.
Q&A. No VOD link or timestamp was posted in any channel, so the takeaways (swing timer, no GDKP, Reals, Oceanic servers, RMT bans, Season of Discovery class quests, realmless tech) are recorded as relayed, with the announcement link. The beta notes post exists only as a screenshot; the Vengeance line is quoted verbatim from the channel's transcription.
Builds converted. The Holy channel's Wowhead link (v1255003013000121--0520503020122303) was rebuilt from its digits with the build command because the converter does not parse Wowhead's format; the forever.oxm.gg link converted directly. Both pass at 51 points.
Superseded claims moved here. "Holy Strike is an on-next-swing ability like Heroic Strike" (Ret, September 16): wrong, it is an instant. "Seal of Righteousness scales at about 10% per hit" (Ret and Prot, demo read): one beta test says 20 to 25%. "Spamming Judgement of Fury applies taunt diminishing returns" (Prot, September 15): taunt diminishing returns are a TBC mechanic. "Seal of Righteousness cannot crit" (Classic assumption): it crits for double. "Blizzard does not want a swing timer" (Ret, from the Ion and Holly interview): still their stated reason for cutting twisting, but the base UI now has one.
Not added. The Hammer of the Righteous tooltip in the client files, the datamined any-target Exorcism, the 16% Pursuit of Justice read and every set bonus are recorded as datamine or one-person reads, not as facts. Datamined set art, mounts and creature models were skipped as not class knowledge.
Prot: eleven posted builds added as rows 36 to 46, all verified. Solid Prot (8/34/9) is the new tank pick; Holy Shock tanks and two deep-Ret tanks without Holy Shield are new.
Prot: spell power now reads as the tank stat after a defense and spell power plate piece was shown; off-tank mana is the new worry, answered with dual spec.
Prot: one read of Esfand's stream puts Seal of Fury at about 10% of spell power per swing, Holy Strike near 20%, Consecration near TBC's 96% on the first 4 targets. All one person's theory.
Holy: Illumination lists Light's Vigil, the Vigil heal can crit, and Vigil on an enemy reads as a 75% Holy Shock refund. The precast argument ended in two uses: known damage windows, or one group reactively.
Holy: most now expect Champion of the Light to be cut to damage only. Beacon of Light nostalgia took over a day of the channel.
Ret: deep dive at 49:35, paladins "will be doing as much damage as everyone else". Echo fires on white hits only, no double judging, no downrank twisting. Holy Shock is a 10-second cooldown with no crit reset.
Ret: one person recalls Aggrend naming a 30/21 Ret/Holy shock build, read as a slip for 23/0/28. Spell power projections of 1,000 to 1,200 with Crusader added as theory. Shock Ret, two-hander (22/0/29) added as row 47.
Blizzard: no Shaman or Warlock tank at launch (GameSpot via Reddit), no raid test realm and hidden item stats (MMORPG.com, relayed), no flex raiding (Kotaku), Q&A September 17 at 10:00 a.m. Pacific with a question thread.
PvP: seals confirmed dispellable by a demo screenshot; Dishonorable Kills question answered as long gone.
Sources gained the Q&A links, the Ion and Holly interview, the deep-dive 49:35 and 40:59 timestamps, the gameplay trailer spell block, the Warcraft Tavern enchanting list, and wowforevertools. Library gained the zeal TBC twisting equations. Beta tracker gained seven rows.

Full entry

Sources: 628 Holy, 1,900 Prot, 5,355 Ret and 18 PvP messages from September 15 at 14:30 to September 16 at 15:10. Roughly half of the Ret and Prot traffic was off-topic (lore, TBC guild drama, a channel-rename joke, AI arguments).

Prot. Links posted and verified: Solid Prot 8/34/9 ("looks like a bis talent"), Block Prot 8/36/7 (Wowhead, converted), Threat Prot 2/32/17, Pursuit Prot 4/31/16, four Holy Shock tanks (21/21/9, 26/25/0, two at 21/30/0, one converted from Wowhead), Champion Prot 2/21/28, Intellect Threat Tank 0/23/28 (wowforevertalents, rebuilt from its point list because the converter misread the encoding), Vengeance Tank 2/26/23. The reconstructed Shock Prot (21) is marked superseded. Point-split debates added: One-Handed Weapon Specialization versus Reckoning, Divine Strength versus Divine Intellect, Holy Conduit's 7 points, Shield Specialization 2/3, Iron Creed without Holy Shield, moving Holy Shield up the tree. Demo tester's Drowned City report added. Gameplay trailer spell block noted. Legacy points: at least 10 earnable by leveling every class to 5 (relayed). Blizzard: no Shaman or Warlock tank at launch, no raid test realm, launch raid sizes (10-man with 8 bosses, 20-man with 13, Onyxia 40), tier split across raids, first raid revamp next summer.
Holy. Illumination tooltip lists Light's Vigil; Vigil heals can crit; Vigil on an enemy reads as damage plus a 75% Holy Shock refund; Holy Shock 10-second cooldown and 20 yards. The Vigil argument, Wild Growth comparison and the "gambling on precast" objection are in the Vigil section. Consensus shift: Champion of the Light is an outlier that will be nerfed to damage only. Reverence is the most-requested deletion. Q&A link and the "Blizzard wanted to avoid a beta" relay added. Enchanting formulas link added.
Ret. Firsthand: deep dive 49:35 and the no-commentary 40:59 paladin section; Q&A announcement and question thread; Ion and Holly interview; Kotaku on no flex. Tooltip reads: echo fires on white hits only, no double judge, "different seal" blocks downrank twists, Seal of Righteousness crits with spell crit, Holy Strike 42% weapon plus 17 to 21 holy, Light's Vigil 730 mana, Vindication 3% attack power plus a 142 debuff, Vengeance 30 seconds, Eye for an Eye on all crits, Reckoning one strike per two reads. Shockadin two-spare-points choice (Consecrated Ground versus Divine Precision 2/3) from a top Season of Discovery Shockadin. Leveling priority added. Mood tally (70% dooming). Art of War-style proc-reset request and capstone replacement proposals added. September 16 screenshot builds summarised without links. Items: new proc shield, three librams, Spellblasting enchant, Fishliver Oil, bank 96 slots, chase items per boss, obfuscated items.
PvP. Seals dispellable (screenshot); Dishonorable Kills; Season of Discovery Shockadin was strong in duels but different.
Overview. Tldr rewritten; What's new; Q&A and raid sizes in key dates; open question 13 (off-tank mana); quick facts for Holy Shock, Seal of Righteousness crits, Edgemaster's, chase items, bank slots.
Builds. Tank pick moved from Deep Prot (20) to Solid Prot (36); Prot table now 16 rows; Ret table 12 rows.
Beta tracker. Rows for seal dispel, Seal of Fury flat damage, Redoubt, Reckoning and Seal of Fury, One-Handed Weapon Specialization and seals, Judgement and Repentance, echo direction.

WoW Forever Daily: 2026-09-15 (site features)

Tue, 15 Sep 2026 16:00:00 GMT

Talent trees: every spec page shows its top pick rendered, with every other build and each hedge comparison in the collapsed build block.
Hover cards: any talent name written in full now shows its tooltip on hover; abbreviations in prose were expanded.
Confidence badges mark claims as Blizzard-stated, read from the demo, channel consensus, one person's theory, or a reconstructed build.
New pages: Popular builds, generated from the archive each run, and the Beta tracker with a status badge per open question.
Site search, an RSS feed and a daily email digest are live. No new channel messages were read for this entry.

WoW Forever Daily: 2026-09-15 (talent link cleanup)

Tue, 15 Sep 2026 16:00:00 GMT

One-time relink: every build link now opens talentsforever.com and was verified as 51 points with prerequisites satisfied.
Converted 12 links from other calculators; splits re-read from the digits.
Repaired Melee Shockadin (54 points) and Two-Hander Hybrid (missing prerequisite) from their recorded point lists.
Reconstructed six builds with no link, including three new Ret rows, 33 to 35.
Two builds still have no point information; the Hyjal Shockadin stays on hyjal.cc.

Full entry

One-time relink. Every build link on the site now points at talentsforever.com and was verified by the conversion tool as 51 points with prerequisites satisfied. No new channel messages were read for this entry.

Converted 12 links from other calculators (railway, wowforevertalents, forever.oxm.gg) and normalized two talentsforever links that used the old hash form: Three-Tree Ret and its revised version, Stun Burst Ret, Shock Ret, Reckoning Bulwark, Holy/Prot Shockadin draft, the Prot day-one placeholder, Precision Ret, Day-one Twist Ret and its variant, Intellect Hybrid, Deep Vigil Shockadin, and the Holy channel's September 15 Champion Healer (build 32, renamed "Strike variant"). Splits re-read from the digits: Reckoning Bulwark is exactly 4/26/21 (was "about"), the Prot placeholder exactly 8/36/7.
Two links already on talentsforever.com failed verification and were repaired from the recorded point lists: Melee Shockadin (build 6) carried 54 points and an over-max Unyielding Faith; Two-Hander Hybrid (build 8) did not meet the Two-Handed Specialization prerequisite. Both verdicts say what changed.
Reconstructed six builds that had no link: Deep Prot (8/36/7), Shock Prot (23/28/0), Vengeance Prot (0/28/23), and three Ret point-list builds now in the table as rows 33 to 35 (Hit-Gear Twist Ret 7/8/36, Panel Shockadin 21/0/30, Endgame Ret without Pursuit 15/0/36). Each is labelled "reconstructed" with the filler points named.
Two builds have no point information: the Prot Spell Power Tank (screenshot only) and the Ret one-hander Seal of Fury concept (image only). Both now say "no point list was posted". The Hyjal Shockadin stays on hyjal.cc because its encoding cannot be converted.
Build 32's verdict now compares it point for point with build 1, which the shared encoding makes possible. The Twist Ret row drops its duplicate forever.oxm.gg link (same digits).

WoW Forever Daily: 2026-09-15 (afternoon update)

Tue, 15 Sep 2026 16:00:00 GMT

Holy: build 32 added; new argument over cutting Champion of the Light to spell damage only.
Prot: beta cap corrected to 20 then 30; mood positive; the Judgement-taunt consensus is now contested.
Prot: Kotaku reports retail-style addon restrictions, which may break the pinned beta test plan.
PvP: one person blames 0.1-second spell batching for the death of Classic twisting.
Ret: trailer tree lacks the Ret capstone; weapon-squish theory gains a second backer.

Full entry

Sources: 24 Holy, 165 Prot, 459 Ret and 13 PvP messages from roughly 11:00 to 14:30. The Ret channel was almost entirely off-topic (lore, races, the channel being jokingly renamed "forever-cleric").

Holy: one more 23/0/28 link added as build 32 (wowforevertalents). The channel's working split is 23/0/28 for raids and deep Holy for 5-mans. New argument section: whether Champion of the Light should be cut to spell damage only, or whether the Holy tree is the thing that needs fixing. Champion noted as one of only two stat-conversion talents in the demo trees.
Prot: beta cap corrected to 20 at start and 30 after about two weeks (was "level 30 cap"). Mood tilted positive ("insanely good", "tankier than ever"). The Judgement-taunt "bad design" consensus is now contested by a vocal group; the tank-swap answer is to sit in Righteousness and macro Seal of Fury, Swift Judgement, Judgement. Judgement of Fury and Righteousness read as near-identical damage. Retail-style Consecration threat multiplier ruled out by the channel.
Prot: Kotaku reports addons will be restricted like retail. Whether a threat API survives is an open question that affects the pinned beta test plan. Link added to Sources.
PvP: one person attributes the death of Classic twisting to 0.1-second spell batching (was 0.4). Seals reportedly still purgeable. Stun removal may share a cooldown with Blessing of Protection (guess).
Ret: the announcement trailer's talent tree matches the demo except the bottom Ret row, where the capstone is absent and icons differ. Gearing read: Intellect-only plate gives spell power if Champion is 100%, Kings adds more. Weapon-squish theory now has two backers and new Wowhead data points; the counter remains that Wowhead bulk-copied its database. Blizzard's "small vertical progression between tiers" line added as a relayed statement.
Overview: addon restriction added as open question 12; quick facts for batching, the conversion-talent count and the trailer tree.

Earlier

2026-09-15 (Retribution pass)

Retribution page seeded from the first four days of #forever-ret (15,862 messages). Seven builds added to the build table as rows 25 to 31; the Sword-and-Board Shockadin (row 7) also came from this channel.
Twist of Light read from tooltips and streams: the 31-point capstone stores the previous seal as an echo that fires on the next auto attack. One echo, no expiry, consumed by the first melee hit, cannot be judged, does not proc other seals. Echo direction is disputed between two testers. Classic-style twisting was tested and does not work without it.
Rotation as understood: alternate rank 1 Seal of Command and Seal of Righteousness every swing, Judgement on cooldown (judge Righteousness), Holy Strike every 10 seconds, Hammer of Wrath in execute, Consecration only if mana allows. The reveal-night reading that fillers beat resealing was superseded by "seal first, every swing."
Holy Strike numbers: 25% weapon damage at rank 1, 40% on the deep-dive slide, plus flat holy; 12-second cooldown, 10 talented; tested not to trigger seals. Damage type and normalization disputed.
Sanctified Judgement refunds 60% of the seal's cost (an earlier 20% read was wrong). Seal of Command is 70% weapon plus 20% spell damage. Seal of Righteousness scales with spell power at about 10% and can crit. Consecration rank 5 reads as about 320 to the first 4 targets versus 384 in Classic.
One theorycrafter's mana budget: about 34% of pool per minute, 39 to 41% with Hammer of Wrath; Consecration is the dominant cost. Demo Rets went dry only when spamming it.
Blizzard statements added: "twist or shock" as the two Ret paths, Holy Strike 40% on the slide, Ret designed around 26 Ret points, ideal Ret gear "Strength and damage" with shared Ret/Shockadin gear, threat reduction because "Ret's damage is as good as everyone else's", Consecration cap because tanks can only hold 3 or 4 targets.
Beta cap revised to 20 at start rising to 30 (later Ret-channel read). Launch November 4, Onyxia and Hyjal December 9. World buffs do not work in raids (Savix clip). Blessings last 1 hour; resistance auras are raid-wide.
Champion of the Light: the Ret channel reads 100% Intellect to spell power at 3/3, consistent with the Holy channel's rank-1 "up to 33%". Still unconfirmed; flagged on both pages.
Sources gained three deep-dive uploads with timestamps, the beta opt-in, the Savix dungeon and world-buff clips, the hyjal.cc calculator, Wowhead Forever item entries, and a warning about the fake professions page on forever.oxm.gg.

2026-09-15 (Protection pass)

Protection page seeded from the first four days of #forever-prot (4,129 messages). Five builds added to the build table as rows 20 to 24; only one is a link and its author disclaimed it.
Tanking loop as currently understood: Seal of Righteousness as the main seal, judge on cooldown, swap to Seal of Fury only to taunt. This supersedes the day-one assumption that the main tank camps Seal of Fury.
Judgement of Fury is the taunt (10-yard range, taunt diminishing returns if spammed). Swift Judgement resets Judgement on a 1-minute cooldown. Judgement is off the global cooldown and no longer consumes seals.
Consecration is baseline and capped: full damage to 4 targets, about 80% less beyond. One tooltip read puts rank 2 at 80 to the first 4 and 24 to the rest, versus 120 in vanilla. Blizzard says the cap is deliberate.
Holy Shield read as +20% block (down from 30%), 4 charges, about double block damage. Templar's Bulwark absorbs 100% of max health on a 5-minute cooldown. Improved Righteous Fury is now 6% damage reduction with no threat bonus; Righteous Fury is +90% threat baseline.
Redoubt's first read (50% proc) superseded by 10% chance on being hit for +30% block over 5 blocks. Reckoning's conflicting day-one reads settled on "about 40% on block, one extra swing."
Shield Specialization returns 6% max mana per block with a 3-second internal cooldown (one says 5). Mana is not expected to be the constraint.
Seal of Fury absorb tested at about 11 damage at level 38, procs from auto attacks only, requires a shield, can be blocked through. Consensus that it will not stack.
Blizzard statements relayed from the deep dive: tactical dungeons where CC and threat matter, AoE cut on purpose, "seal busywork is bad", tanks should not get crit, all gear being redone, weapon skill reduced per item, spell power on items from level 10.
Sources gained the Found Photos recap, the Aggrend tweet, a Legacy system clip, the Savix vendor VOD and the wowforevertalents calculator.

2026-09-15 (PvP pass)

PvP page seeded from the first three days of #forever-pvp (310 messages). Nine builds added to the build table as rows 11 to 19.
PvP systems as seen in the demo: one PvP mega realm with no war mode, honor-only ranks to 14 shown as a "0/250" bar, seasons that reset with new raids, an arena NPC that only queues Warsong Gulch.
Twist of Light is the only way to twist; Classic-style twisting and Reckoning-plus-twisting both failed in the test. Rank 1 Command is assumed because max-rank twisting goes out of mana in about ten seconds.
Holy Strike identified as a new holy-damage Ret strike on a 12-second cooldown. Normalization and spell power scaling are the open questions.
Consensus that Ret/Holy beats Ret/Prot for PvP on the strength of silence immunity, fear reduction and self-heals. A later caveat notes the 6-second immunity is easy to play around.
"Premier" honor vendor gear looked weaker than vanilla equivalents in demo screenshots. Healing pieces are named "Lamellar"; no spell-power set was seen.
All Blizzard PvP statements are secondhand relays with no links; flagged as such on every page.

2026-09-15

Site created. Holy page and build table seeded from the first three days of the Holy channel.
Champion of the Light's rank-1 tooltip ("up to 33% of Intellect") identified as the unknown that decides the spec; the community had been arguing from both 33% and 100% without noticing.
Blizzard's deep-dive statements on Holy verified from the panel audio: best single-target healer, longest mana, limited party healing by design.
Ret, Prot and PvP pages pending their first pass.